What is interesting for me in the early parts of Gen, certainly the first half of it, is Gods concern for his creation. God wants the best for what he has created, and maybe, just maybe, the flood fore example, was an immediate response to human beings going away from what God would want for them. If something goes wrong, the immediate response is to correct it, ad try try try again.

One very interesting thing is right at the beginning, where God removes Adam and Eve from the Garden, for eating frm the forbidden tree. For so many years so many people tought me that this was a punishment for eating form that tree, but I read it slgihtly differently, thinking that God removed them from the garden so they didn't get ithemselves into any further danger with the other tree they weren't meant to eat from. Obviously they did, and humans did get into bother once out of the Garden, but one question that goes through my mind, could it have been even worse if Adam and Eve had eaten from that other tree? God's love is shown as already stated by his covenant, he would never again want to kill his creation. But there are one or two controvertial things in these early chapters, which I would like to post, butnot sure how controvertial we are allowed to be. will think and reflect upon that and hopefully post again soon.

Wow, so much happens in these opening chapters it is hard to know where to start.

It seems to me that up until Abram's story its a bit unclear how much of this actually happened as accounted and how much of it is just an origins story to tell of the nature of the God of Abram. I'm touch and go on the flood account, I wonder if there were lots of these flood accounts because the flood did happen and if everyone on earth was then decended from Noah then it is no surprise that an Ark turns up in all of these accounts. Everyone on earth at the time of the exile to Babylon would have had stories passed down to them of how their whole family line can be traced back to this family that survived a great flood because they were on the Ark. The question really is about why was their a flood and what does it say about the gods or God that caused/allowed it to happen. I still struggle with this even in the light of the 'spin' that the Hebrew story puts on it, God still doesn't sound pro-life to me even in this account.

Then I read the Psalms and see another account of someone delighting in the fact that the righteous will prosper but the wicked will perish.

Then in the New Testament (I know this is the OT post but it's all related) I read Jesus warning people that there's worse sin than what they considered to be sin and that if they don't sort it out then it's hell for them.

Now in recent years I've done a bit of reading and have understood some context to suggest that perhaps things aren't as black and white as they seem. That Jesus is responding to a culture in his time where the Pharisees are telling everyone their going to hell and he's saying hang on a minute you haven't got this thing all sorted yourselves, better to give thought to what you're up to and the consequence of your thoughts and words rather than bothering people with all this talk of hell.

I think that even though I don't like the turn or burn gospel I find myself reading this and thinking I can see why that gospel is preached. At face value that's what I see too, but I refuse to believe that that is the nature of God.

Hearing the context of the passages as posted here gives me hope that what I see at face value isn't the way it is but surely that just makes it harder to read the bible and trust that you can interpret it in line with the true nature of God.

I realise I haven't made much of a point or attempted to answer the questions posed by Matt but I just felt I needed to vent off some steam and say where I am at the start of this. I'm hoping it gets easier as it all unravels.

A slightly confused RicVic

want to say thanks for the article matt and some new perspective on the book of Genesis.

general main points I gathered, were that the Israelites God cares about how they interact. And for His creation - it wasn't some arbitrary activity for God to create the world

Gen 3:15 -> its a promise also.....

... there is so much of what you are saying matt. Evidence that this God is present and cares for His creation.

as far as being a book rich in theology and your remark about being inspired I am reminded of the presence of the trinity is right away apart of God in Genesis

Genesis 1:26

Then God said, " Let US make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

Gen 1:1 "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."

* The word "God" in Genesis 1:1 is the Hebrew word Elohim. Because of its ending, Elohim is a plural name with a singular meaning. This suggests the uni-plurality of the God head.
* God the Son was there in the beginning. He is included with God the FAther and God the Holy Spirit in the words, " In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Genesis 3:22
Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of US in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever--"

again US(God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit) - and along with God protecting His creation, revealing his love.

im also pointing to the Trinity to remind us as readers that that is apart of the theology of the Bible - and we will come across it in our reading the gospels. However the concept not being a random part of the NT is important to discovering the Bible.

something that I picked up on reading the other article posted about Matthew was the way Jesus was referred to as a radical ... and he surly was to the Jews. Something that grabs my attention me every time I read scripture is how confidently Jesus is about who he is. - despite what the pharisees hardened hearts towards Him - it grabbed their attention as well I suppose, rightfully so.

In matthew we were all reading about Jesus birth and the amount of prophecy fulfillment in that particular writing...peeking over at John (does everyone remember the mentioning in the other article is the confirmation of Jesus as the Son, with whom God is well pleased at His baptism.)

well I cant help but notice that in other parts of the Gospels, the God filled ragamuffin, and now confirmed Son of God... not is only confidently bold in His speech like in Matthew:

Mathew 28:17-19

And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has een given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

, but makes statement such as, "... Before Abraham was, I am" (john 8:58)

for further connection, check out the gospel of John in comparison to Genesis.... (john 1 particularly)

the over all connection of scripture is grand

thank you for the challenge questions. could we all discuss those ? would love to hear about what others notice....

Also, about the article. The way it was written and the approach taken to look and think about the Bible was one of the main things I enjoyed about it. I saw the writing as not fearful..... I think I approach the Bible with fear sometimes.

just was something I noticed about my reactions and realized as I was reading the article.... thought I would be honest and share.

My slight issue with the practice of appropriating a culturally relevant story and re-writing it so it is refelcts who God really is (which certainly appears to be what whoever wrote Genesis has done), is where that definition of who God is comes from...why do we believe that what this first historical document says about God is true, when it is merely reflecting the human author(s)' experience and understanding of God and his work in the world?

You see, what Genesis 1-11 says about God DOES tally with my own experience of God, so if I were tasked with authoring this first biblical account and re-writing Gilgamesh et al, I would probably write something similar - but I wouldn't be so confident that my personal experience of God is absolutely TRUE. Obviously I'm really refering to the doctrine of inspiration here, and how we can test the inspiration of the Holy Spirit on what is written in Genesis when there was nothing else yet written at the time it was authored - where does our confidence of its truth rest?

There may be a very a simple answer to this, and I may have already even grasped it before in my life but forgotten again! This is only the second time in my life that I will read through the entire bible systematically, so I bet there will be other things I have since forgotten!

Thanks a lot, I'd appreciate your thoughts
Chris

I can, and do see where the comments and thoughts are coming from, it is so easy, for us as humans, and humans from different cultures and backgrounds, to apply our own words, and our own meanings to the words that we read. So for righteous, so many of us, and me included would read Christian, but forgetting easily that at the end of it all, it will be God who judges and makes decisions not us. But yeh, our own vocab does take over when thinking and reading through.

righteousness and needing righteousness .... God is seeking it, only we can not provide it.

something unique about the Word is that is says all are unrighteous... even those who believe in their God.

even Isaiah included himself saying," For ALL of US..."

Isa 64:6 For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

Jer 23:5 "Behold, {the} days are coming," declares the LORD, "When I will raise up for David a righteous Branch; And He will reign as king and act wisely And do justice and righteousness in the land.

Jer 23:6 "In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell securely; And this is His name by which He will be called, 'The LORD our righteousness.

("He? " , " The Lord OUR Righteousness" ? .... )
seems that God is seeking Reighteousness - and throughout scripture there are promises that righteousness will be given

a few more thoughts as far as about Psalm 1 - if we understand righteousness as something we know is attainable only as asscribed by God, not as an earning.... ( remember Noah and Abraham were both not perfect, they were instructed by God, tried to be obedient but their obedience was not related to their personal human perfection in carrying out their lives -though we might assume that they were striving we know that events occurred within their different objectives that we would consider less than honorable, yet God revealed Himself to these men.

Remembering that in much of the first 5 books of the Bible their is proclamation of the savior, in reading the Bible I can't help but see , especially in Psalm 1 that it is not simply the non "Christian" who is wicked. All out hearts are wicked. (as said in much scripture) That was the result of the fall. None are righteous.

Some of what I think we are asking is, What is wickedness? If according to the Bible it is the opposite of righteousness, and we are naturally unable to be righteous - then we are wicked.

AND YET, there is promise after promise that righteousness will be provided.

So perhaps - Being "Christian" doesn't involve being righteous as all, but rather Accepting that we are not righteousness and can not be. And thus believe and put our Hope in the righteousness promised to us by God..... the ultimate sacrifice of Christ, God the Son.

Our believing is not about a ticket to heaven given by our earning or ability to simply be Christians , it is a heart change that occurs in the hearts of man when we Trust that we need a Holy Righteousness that is not our own, then realizing that it came through Christ.

(Also interesting on the concept of righteousness is Paul's perspective in Galatians. )

(Righteousness extended to the Gentiles and their being grafted into God's plan through Israel is an amazing thing to read - Romans 9) God made a way and he did it so beautifully and mercifully through Israel.

These personal questions are an awesome thing to ask the Lord. He can show us whats up. And let us in on it
- would love to know you're all's creative ideas ! :)

(repost of matt's questions)
1. What stories dominate the workplace, school, university, social network that you’re part of? They’re unlikely to be the mythical-style stories that we find here. More likely to be stories that praise the pursuit of wealth, or happiness, or rebellion, or fame or whatever.

2. Which of these stories are good? Which seemed flawed or empty?

3. What could you do, say or be that would give an obvious twist to one of these flawed stories and demonstrate something positive and different?

The stories of pursuing happiness, achievement, rebellion, and self protection are things I heard alot about in the demographic that I am currently living in.

honestly I feel like all man's stories are flawed - but can be redemptive

positive twists are always near by,....

anyone have a situation where they have experienced that recently?

Ricvic - loved your comment about covering the challenge of getting connected

BlueLetterBible.com is a resource I use to do word searches and cross referencing and such. Very awesome!

I had searched the word righteousness in the past during my struggles to understand what it meant to be such - and the results were what I typed previously.

I totally see what you are saying about how are we intended to read Genesis.

One thought I have about that is the way the whole bible is written and put together... is it not ordered by revelation? The Jews were under harsh law, the prophets spoke of "Our Lord of righteousness coming" - and book after book of the prophets reveals redemption for Israel. Then there is 40 years of silence and John the Baptist (whom the Jews questioned him if he was Elijah..) then Jesus breaks into the scene in the Gospels ... His death,resurrection, and ascension - the descending of the Holy Spirit and the life of the early church.

because when I think about what the Prophets knew and read, when I think about what Paul knew ( which was a tonnnnnnn (Phil 3 and also Galatians 3) I know that they took all their knowledge into account, however it did not precede the revelation of the Gospel of Christ to them.

I also wanted to write to correct myself incase anyone wanted to read the Grafting in of the gentiles into salvation is in Romans 11. , sorry about that :)

Paul read as a man of faith - and He considered that the wisdom of Righteousness.....

I can not suppress the spirit in me from recognition of the Gospel, My whole being rejoices. I have been freed and I read the law freed. (Not that anyone has asked me to or something, just reveals the Holy Spirit really)

The gospel is folly to man for sure.

One of my Messianic friends favorite chapters of the Bible is Isaiah 53, its one of mine as well.

again in it there is a reminder of our fallenness
53:6 " All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned evey one to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

but whole chapter is sweet!

your very right about it being a great year! Im thankful for everyone's participation in this!

wow, thinking me is slightly out of my depth here, so many wise and clever people, Laura thank you so much for your comments and thoughts on righteousness and wickedness. Just a thought about righteousness here, I think it is in rom.8 where Paul talks about all have fallen short, this would I guess be due to our humanness, but righteousness is something that is surely something to be persued, even if we cannot yet achieve it, it is something that is worth, and should be strived for. In a comparisn way, like forgiveness, forgiveness is something that we may struggle to to straight away, depending on the situation and what has been done or said against us, but isn't it better, and more honest maybe, to say that forgiveness is something that I am aiming for, something that I am working through with God in a situation, and something that I want to achieve? Man cannot be righteous on his own, only god can make us righteous, and that, I guess will probably happen when we live for eternity with God, but God can also hel us with forgivenss as well, as we in our own strength may not be able to achieve it.

Hope this all makes some kind of sense.

The article and the questions are brilliant and incredibly provocative but in a way that makes me want to really think and reflect rather than lash out in any way! Its so important to understand the background and the context into which Genesis derives from

I take on board the comments about it being a dangerous thing to reinterpret stories but ultimately it is a really good thing to do and I think that in anything, there is always room to expose or tease out beauty, truth and something of God.

Take the reality that we live in today where wealth, money, earnings,status etc are at so often the forefront of our minds - whether it be the credit crunch/economic downturn, rich lists, poverty screaming out at us and so many ways of everyday life being about money. Isn't it great (as well as challenging) to know that it is possible for money and its use and the making of it not to be about personal greed and consumption alone but also to be about creating wealth and opportunity for others to flourish in!

This weeks Connecting with Culture article by the LICC's Peter Heslam entitled 'creating wealth to build peace'can be found here http://www.licc.org.uk/culture/creating-wealth?PHPSESSID=6174c379197a93f... and many of the links from it show that Money and its use and its expenditure can be used to bring good, to reduce poverty, to bring blessing, hope and a future. That's brlliant, that's creative, that's a sign of something we tend to think of as being quite negative or devisive being used to bring good!